We spoke briefly about this one in another thread here: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=92
Mike said that he suspects these AK47's with the bordered leather hanger and the larger serial numbers might be Romanian.
After purchasing the one on the auction, I was pleasantly surprised to have it arrive in near mint condition. The blade only has oil on it.
It has been renumbered as can be seen. The old serial was ground off, and the new larger one added.
The leather seems newish to me. But with the overall condition appearing excellent, with no signs of a rework, I was wondering if maybe Romania bought these for issue, or maybe bought bayonets and fitted them with hangers and serials?
Or is this just Bulgarian overall?
What do you think, based on the pics?
Bulgarian AK47 / Romanian Issue?
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Re: Bulgarian AK47 / Romanian Issue?
Back in 2008 on a Belgium bayonet forum a forum member (Romanian) stated the following on a post from me about an AK 47 bayonet I identified as Romanian:
- The AK-47 bayonet was not manufactured in Romania. It cannot be found in any military museum from Romania, no officer, no NCO and no soldier from the Romanian army knew about it when I served in army [1974-76] and most of all I did NOT see it attached to any weapon in Romania during a 35 years period. Isn't this very strange??? Unfortunately many books have too many mistakes and the authors copy information from each other without to check the truth. ---> The bayonets models made in Romania are: => 1) M44 short folding cruciform bayonet for the 7.62mm Mosin-Nagant M44 bolt action rifle made in Romania in ealy 1950s; => 2) Blade model for the Romanian made SKS carbines manufactured between 1957-62. I have one SKS bayonet made in 1958 in Romania. => 3) AKM bayonet with Bowie type blade manufactured starting with early 1960s. => 4) AK-74 bayonet model also having Bowie type blade. Orita 09/01/08
- The AK-47 bayonet was not manufactured in Romania. It cannot be found in any military museum from Romania, no officer, no NCO and no soldier from the Romanian army knew about it when I served in army [1974-76] and most of all I did NOT see it attached to any weapon in Romania during a 35 years period. Isn't this very strange??? Unfortunately many books have too many mistakes and the authors copy information from each other without to check the truth. ---> The bayonets models made in Romania are: => 1) M44 short folding cruciform bayonet for the 7.62mm Mosin-Nagant M44 bolt action rifle made in Romania in ealy 1950s; => 2) Blade model for the Romanian made SKS carbines manufactured between 1957-62. I have one SKS bayonet made in 1958 in Romania. => 3) AKM bayonet with Bowie type blade manufactured starting with early 1960s. => 4) AK-74 bayonet model also having Bowie type blade. Orita 09/01/08
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Mr. B.
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Re: Bulgarian AK47 / Romanian Issue?
OK ...... To start with, nice find Brian. Yes, your AK47 bayonet bears a lot of similarity with the one I consider Romanian and could be a similar variation. The scabbard body appears to be typical Bulgarian with the two-tone sanding, The two rivet, (brass/copper?), leather hanger strap and numbering are not typical though. What this means is still unknown and debatable.
I still believe that any country that issued the forged receiver AK47 at any time, for military or any other use, would have also issued AK47 bayonets. This is regardless of whether they manufactured them, assembled them from parts or imported them from other countries. Compound this with their age, these AK47 bayonets and scabbards may have been reworked and reissued multiple times. This would account for all the differences in details and markings, regardless of where they were manufactured or assembled.
There is still not enough documented information on the AK47 bayonets or the rifles for that matter. Post WWII the ComBloc countries adopted the Kalashnikov weapons systems. One of the main purposes of this was the standardization and interchangeability of the weapons, ammunitions, accessories including bayonets. Theoretically parts and components from any of the ComBloc countries could be assembled and issued anywhere. Unfortunately, Due to the Cold War, information about weapons production, issue, and use is very limited, if records were even kept at all. Mike
I still believe that any country that issued the forged receiver AK47 at any time, for military or any other use, would have also issued AK47 bayonets. This is regardless of whether they manufactured them, assembled them from parts or imported them from other countries. Compound this with their age, these AK47 bayonets and scabbards may have been reworked and reissued multiple times. This would account for all the differences in details and markings, regardless of where they were manufactured or assembled.
There is still not enough documented information on the AK47 bayonets or the rifles for that matter. Post WWII the ComBloc countries adopted the Kalashnikov weapons systems. One of the main purposes of this was the standardization and interchangeability of the weapons, ammunitions, accessories including bayonets. Theoretically parts and components from any of the ComBloc countries could be assembled and issued anywhere. Unfortunately, Due to the Cold War, information about weapons production, issue, and use is very limited, if records were even kept at all. Mike
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Mr. B.
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Re: Bulgarian AK47 / Romanian Issue?
Next ....... Regarding your post Grardus. I agree with Orita's quote that an AK47 bayonet may not have been manufactured in Romania. I also agree that many of the available bayonet references have borrowed/copied pictures and information without proper research. As I have also stated, there is not a lot of documented information available about the Kalashnikov bayonets and countries where they were manufactured, assembled or used world wide. This creates a lot of area for intentional and unintentional false information.
As far as the rest of the quote, let me ask this. Were forged receiver AK47 rifles ever used/issued in Romania? If so, would they have also used/issued bayonets to go with them? Or did the Romanians still issue M44 carbines and SKS rifles until they started manufacturing the stamped receiver AKM rifles and 6X3 Type I bayonets in the mid 1960's. This seems illogical to me. Mike
As far as the rest of the quote, let me ask this. Were forged receiver AK47 rifles ever used/issued in Romania? If so, would they have also used/issued bayonets to go with them? Or did the Romanians still issue M44 carbines and SKS rifles until they started manufacturing the stamped receiver AKM rifles and 6X3 Type I bayonets in the mid 1960's. This seems illogical to me. Mike