(10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

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nnicclaas
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(10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by nnicclaas » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:50 pm

Today i found this bayonet, which is currently offered on an german auction site.
It appears to be an bulgarian circle 10 6H5 bayonet but which has a laser engraved izhmash logo and the letters "NC-AK".
This combination of souvenir markings and bulgarian arsenal markings doesent seem to match up.
Has anyone seen such a bayonet before or has any idea whats it provenance is?
8644182.1584507137.jpg
8644182.1507530303.jpg
8644182.625430249.jpg
8644182.441750410.jpg

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Mr. B.
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by Mr. B. » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:46 pm

This bayonet and scabbard are not Russian. They both have the Bulgarian double circle 10 molded arsenal marks. Therefor the Russian Izhevsk markings on the blade are definitely fake. Perhaps someone was using this well used bayonet for etching practice? I have never seen one like this before. It is a good example of the type of fakes that are possible. At one time there were good fakes/replicas coming out of China that was an almost exact copy of the souvenir Russian AK74 6X5 bayonet and scabbard complete with a copy of the certification. Mike

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nnicclaas
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by nnicclaas » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:08 pm

Thanks for your response, i also thought this to be a fake.
after looking around a little further, i stumbled upon this german website that seems to sell the same bayonet advertised as made by izhmash for bulgarian Army.
as far as i am able to asses this explanation I find it very unlikely that this would have happend
this is the only picture of the website that shows th bayonets almost identical to that in the original auction.
48_0.jpg

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Mr. B.
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by Mr. B. » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:53 pm

I guess I am too logical and would ask the following questions. Why would the Russian Izhevsk arsenal manufacture bayonets for Bulgaria using Bulgarian arsenal molds? Wouldn't they just use Izhevsk molds? Or provide them bayonets from existing stocks or new production? Why would they bother with the time and expense to engrave the blade with presentation/souvenir markings? Why would the Russians place their logo on the blade of a Bulgarian bayonet? Why would the Bulgarians issue these bayonets for use? The last picture above has the typical Bulgarian issue numbers on the scabbard.
I would personally question the seller or dealers descriptions/explanations and would be hesitant to believe anything they represent. Whether they are just misinformed or intentionally misrepresenting items is questionable.
To me this is an obvious fake and is just wrong in many ways. Mike

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MDIvie
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by MDIvie » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:33 am

Reminds me of all the faked Yugo and Hungarian bayonets with the Israeli markings, the Spetsnaz special 6X4's with the VDV emblem engraving, the DDR bayonets with the hammer and compass emblem engraved on the blade, and so forth and so on.
I have what I believe to be an original Israeli issue Hungarian based on the source and the fact I didn't pay a ridiculously inflated price for it. An Israeli friend also believes it is legitimate.
I just won't pay ridiculous money for a souvenir bayonet.

ilian
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by ilian » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:18 am

I have both yugo and hungarian bayonet IDF engraved but come from Israël and marks isn't the the same that the one present on fake.

6h5 bulgarian fake marked HC-AK are a mystery for me, what is the interest on doing that, bulgy 6h5 were cheaper and more common to their russian cousins for fure.
But russian commercial "civilian" markings on a bulgarian bayonet...

NICO56
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by NICO56 » Wed May 06, 2020 3:08 pm

MDIvie, can you explain what the differences are between the real and fake IDF bayonets?
Do you have pictures of the authentic model?

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MDIvie
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by MDIvie » Thu May 07, 2020 4:36 am

I don't have a fake to show side by side comparisons. I think there may be some side by sides in one of the other sections.

Martin

NICO56
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by NICO56 » Thu May 07, 2020 8:04 am

OK I understand. Do you have pictures of a real IDF model?

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mill_speer
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by mill_speer » Tue May 19, 2020 3:29 am

According to Russian law, no naked weapons are allowed to be exported.
There is an exception in which these are deactivated
- by cutting the blade
- by permanently blocking the planting device.
these variants were exported as "HC" collector's knife and "HB" survival knife from Ischmasch only with electronically branded Ischmasch logo !!!
Laser engraved ischmsch logo are fakes.
By annealing the blade, AK bayonets from "CPT" Gost R certification were released for export by other dealers.
Export without certificate by cutting the blade.


Nach russischen Gesetz dürfen keine Blankwaffen exportiert werden.
Eine Ausnahme besteht, in dem diese deaktiviert sind
- durch einschneiden der Klinge
- durch dauerhaftes blockieren der Aufpflanzvorrichtung.
diese Varianten wurden als "HC" Sammlermesser und "HB" Survivalmesser von Ischmasch exportiert nur mit elektronisch eingebrannten Ischmasch logo !!!
Mit Laser gravierten ischmsch logo sind fälschungen .
Durch ausglühen der Klinge wurden AK Bajonette von "CPT " Gost R-Zertifiezierung für den Export durch andere Händler freigegeben.
Export ohne Zertifikat durch Abschneiden der Klinge .
Attachments
3.2 Rus.Sammler 6X5 mit Bolzen.png
Rus. Logos im Vergleich  Fälschung und Original .png
Logo im Vergleich Fälschung  Original.png
1.1Rus.Sammler 6X4 Fälschung  15.5.14 (4) - Kopie.png
1.2Rus.6X4 Logos im Vergleich  Fälschung und Original of Ismasch logo - Kopie.png

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mill_speer
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by mill_speer » Tue May 19, 2020 3:36 am

Bulgarian 6X5 AK bayonets with the Ischmasch logo are fraudulent.
Bulgarische 6X5 AK Bajonette mit Ischmasch Logo sind Betrug.
Attachments
Russian 6X5 Wire Cutter Bayonet Collector Edition  Kopie (2).png
besch. - Kopie.png
Russian 6X4 Wire Cutter Bayonet Collector Edition .png
Russian 6X3 Wire Cutter Bayonet souvenier Edition.png
3.3Rus.Sammler 6X5mit Bolzen und Einschnitt  15.5.14 (1).png

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mill_speer
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by mill_speer » Tue May 19, 2020 3:43 am

Original collector variants with laser engraving
Weitere original Sammler Varianten mit Lasergravur
Best Regards.
G.
Attachments
CPT sammler Bajonettmesser   (2).JPG
CPT sammler Bajonettmesser   (1).JPG
UnbenanntRuss.6x3 Zertifikat - Kopie.png

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Mr. B.
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Re: (10) 6H5 bayonet with russian souvenir marking

Post by Mr. B. » Tue May 19, 2020 6:14 am

Thank you mill_speer! Excellent information, pictures and documentation! Well done. Mike

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