6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Russian AK Bayonets
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ou75id32

6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ou75id32 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:32 pm

Seen it twice once as sold with deact. bayonet ... It has same square mark "window" as you can see mostly stamped on ak-s...
You can see how weird scabbard looks on the sides..

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ou75id32

Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ou75id32 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:18 pm

some more photos...

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MDIvie
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by MDIvie » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:22 pm

That is the mark of one of the refurbishment arsenals/units. I've seen that mainly on butt stocks but also on black plastic oil bottles. I'm still trying to identify the location. WOuld love to have one of these.

MDI

ou75id32

Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ou75id32 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:27 pm

Correct about marking

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Mr. B.
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by Mr. B. » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:54 pm

Here is a picture I found of this marking on a Russian stock set. Mike
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MDIvie
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by MDIvie » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:53 am

I've seen pictures of a 6X4 bayonet with this mark on the grip. My scabbard like this came with an arsenal rework Tula bayonet with the star on the grip.

ilian
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ilian » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:55 pm

I have the same pictures as you published but never seen for sale...

ilian
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ilian » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:37 pm

I found a bayonet with this mark here in France :shock: :shock:

Why the russians used a mold with this mark?
Could it be made by a subcontractor?

:?: :?: :?:

ilian
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ilian » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:43 pm

:-) pictures :-)
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ilian
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ilian » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:45 pm

:-) :-) :-)
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Mr. B.
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by Mr. B. » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:12 pm

The common consensus is that scabbards with the "window" mark are made by an independent manufacturer or sub contractor. It is possible that they were made using surplus or obsolete equipment from either Tula or Izhevsk. They appear to have been made to supply replacement scabbards for missing or damaged scabbards during inspections and/or rework. They are normally found on reworked bayonets from both arsenals and with forced, etched matching numbers.
The bayonet appears to be a typical rework. However it is unique as the latch parts have been taken apart and parts repaired or replaced and a new triangular proof mark added.
Just curious, but is the bayonet Tula or Izhevsk and where is it marked? Also I would like to have a "window" scabbard if any one has one for sale or trade. Mike

ilian
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ilian » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:01 am

This one is a classic Izhevsk made bayonet but reworked.

i do agree when you say that is a sub contractor, but why using a mold this this kind of problem, i worked in plastic injection and mold can be repair! I don't understand why there is a so large material absence.

Regards.

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Mr. B.
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by Mr. B. » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:36 pm

I am not sure of what you mean by large material absence? If you mean the indented area on the side seam it is not unusual. Here are pictures of a matching number late issue Light weight pommel bayonet and scabbard from Izhevsk. Depending on the molding process and the amount of material injected there is a opening on one side of the body which is plugged after the material is injected. Usually there is excess material and a raised area is left. Occasionally the amount of material is less than needed or forced out between the mold halves as excess flash. This causes the plug to push farther into the mold leaving an indention. M.
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ilian
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ilian » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:47 am

Thanks Mike for the explanation, and sorry for my poor english, "technical terms" are often hard to translate with the good word or expression.

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Mr. B.
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by Mr. B. » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:08 pm

I once did some consulting work for a company that made brushes and razors. They used injection molding to make handles and other parts. I do not know the exact procedure the Russians used but the process is generally the same. The theory of the "window" company used old reworked arsenal molds comes from the crude details on the "window" scabbard bodies. Note your 1st picture and the amount of flashing or excess material that has been trimmed/cut off. All the molded scabbard show areas on the side seams of the mold halves that have been ground off. However with age and usage the leakage of material becomes excessive and the molds are replaced. This leaking is a cause of the indention on the one side. Mike
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pwcosol
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by pwcosol » Sun May 06, 2018 3:38 pm

Recently made the acquaintance of a gentleman whom resides in the Russian Federation. He seemed very knowledgeable and so inquired about both the Soviet green "Border Guard", checkered black grip 6x4s and the 6x4 "split-box" mold marking. Here is what he had to say:

Q: I have attached photos of three items I want to know more about. I know green 6x4 is for Soviet border guard. Black grip 6x4 with checkering on sides is trials model? Orange scabbard with "box" marking at bottom is ?

A: I asked my guys and they told me that the bayonets and scabbard in black color is made only for the army of East Germany. There was a brief period of time (1990 - 1991) when the black bayonets & scabbard made in the Izhevsk plant. For the Soviet army always have red bayonets and scabbards. In the photo, I didn't see the markings you're asking about. It is possible to make a detailed photo? Green bayonets and scabbards indeed have made for Soviet border guards as gift option.

Q:Thank you for this information. I attached a photo with better view of manufacturer marking ("split-box") cast into 6x4 scabbard body (just above cutter plate). Your translations are very good. (I think better than I could make if translating my English into Russian!)..

A: In 1972, through the creation of advanced machine under the cartridge (AK74), at the Izhevsk arms factory has created a "green" plastic, which was completed with an experimental version of the AK74, but as for the industrial production of this material was very expensive, made the decision about manufacture of plastic fittings for nominal AKM for border guards. With the transition of weapons frontier troops with AKM to AK-74, as a premium steel arms AK74 machines awarded with the "green" plastic. Kit premium weapons included an AK-74 with a "green" butt plate gas tube, forend, set of shops , well and accordingly the same color bayonet. This is quite a rare item.

Q: Thank you again for this information. I have seen picture of AK74 in Russian museum with all green fittings. I believe green polyamide (?) plastic is same used on NRS-2 "scout" knife. Unfortunate scarcity of green 6x4 makes it only dream (and probably never a reality) to have one for my collection!

A: Really green bayonet is a rarity. These bayonet are awarded not all border guards, but only distinguished. I learned that the marking on the photo ("split-box") is not a manufacturer, but a technological mark for casting.

Q: So, you are saying the "split-box" cast marking indicates this scabbard was made at a facility (neither Tula or Izhevsk) where research & development took place. It was made for evaluation and/or testing, and the marking represents this.

A: Yes, that's right. If you need help, I'm always here to help.

https://rusknife.com
https://www.nakop.ru/topic/15308-shtyk- ... difikacii/

What I take away from this regarding the "split-box" marking is these scabbards were the first design of the type. They were evaluated in-house and likely refined. One would think some small number might have been made for actual field trials, but this is not a certainty. Seems logical grips were made as well wit this same marking as well. The final pattern, exact formula for the polyamide composition, and maybe even dies were then farmed out to Izhevsk & Tula for general production.

ilian
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by ilian » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:35 pm

I don't really agree with this answer, because i found more military items with this "window" mark

For me it's a subcontractor.
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MDIvie
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Re: 6x4 with "window" on scabbard

Post by MDIvie » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:07 am

From what I've found out so far, it appears that the "window pane" mark belongs to another factory in the city of Tula that makes sub assemblies and repair parts. Possibly Toshmash.

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