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Re: Egyptian marked Tula 6x4

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2024 10:42 pm
by Dragur2791
Mike,
First of all - I dont upload pictures on this page for the sake of you so if they don’t matter to you.. well my friend.. i don’t give a flying fuck what matters to you. I upload pictures on this page for everyone to see and to make their own oppinion from. This page is a data bank and a place to exchange viewpoints for people like you and me who collect these bayonets.
If you get so worked up about this subject then please refrain from dealing with it.

Re: Egyptian marked Tula 6x4

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 2:09 am
by Mr. B.
Unfortunately, as moderator, I do have to deal with it. When someone posts borrowed(?) pictures that are obviously fraudulent or altered they need to be pointed out. It also makes the other pictures suspect as well as the ethics of the member that posts them.
Picture #1 is as originally posted. Notice the direction of the sawteeth on the left bayonet. Picture #2 is after the picture has been magically corrected? The next picture is of a Russian Type II scabbard with an inspection stamp over the molded arsenal mark. Mike
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Re: Egyptian marked Tula 6x4

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:49 pm
by Dragur2791
William Michaels,
What are you doing?
Are you still suggesting that I altered the pics?! You are way out of your league right now.
We already went over this in the Facebook thread of the group “BayonetCollecting”. The thread that you started has 59 comments and you were called out to as why you accuse renounced collectors as scammers. No one in that thread supported your accusation of me or David being scammers. You went silent and had nothing more to say. Nothing! Or do you? I called you out serval times in the thread. No response from you. And here we are again - you presenting the same grainy photo?!
I never uploaded that top grainy picture you present. I uploaded two pics with permission from David. Thats it.
The other pictures in this thread belongs to me and Tal.

William Michaels,
Whatever problem you got with the bayonets/info you have been presented to I don’t know. There are many specimin out there that we know very little about but we often work with the scarce info we got untill we get more info. You obviously got very upset about these bayonets/the info. Well keep your frustration and hurt ego to yourself and to start suggesting that I or David have altered any photos is just pathetic.

But lets have it William Michaels,
Go on with your accusations and lets see where this leads.
You got more to say? Lets have it here or in the group on facebook. Its your call.

I will get back with a link for the thread in the group so everyone is able to read what has been said.

Re: Egyptian marked Tula 6x4

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2024 11:13 pm
by Anonimi8989
William, are you still in that? i will just repost my comment for this that had been published on FB, then. also, the ORIGINAL picture (not re-take from a computer screen) is attached below.
but first: i am the owner of the pictures, which jacob published. they have not been altered or whatsoever, not by me and not by him. i have long term international reputation as an AK bayo expert, and i need no altered pictures for prooving my word being taken seriously neither i feel any need to hide as their owner that never removed or added any details from them. that's not the league im playing at.
want to know more - and especially why this is just a case of someone that missed it completely? check my LONG, PICTURED comment out:

i will join the forum's duscission later, but i want to set the things as they really are: this exact bayonet wasn't mine. some of the ones on the market - are. this exact one came from a guy in israel that sold his grandfather's belongings after his pass. i tried to get it myself, btw. and for the topic:
you guys don't keep in mind and take in account the history and geopolitics involved here - e.g. what were the politic disabilities of egypt during that time, which i will review in the next few lines; you also don't take in account the different vision about bayonets in a country such israel, 25 years old, full of wars and enemies (trophie, forever, not a collector's item. the guys took them in order to keep them - those had great sentimental value for their owners), and you dont take in account the supply was extremely limited due to those geopolitics (egypt - russia, despite syria and russia) and other factors such as those wre never being sold commercially - and made in very small quantity per request, for a specific contract.
the reason them for popping now is first, becasue Kippur war veterans took them 51 years ago. those were ultra rare as they were contracted un-numbered from tula (for some reasons such as hiding the origin - the arabic show-off culture wouldn't let them keep it like that, and also the contract was probably a secret). note that they've been using in white ink to cover the grinded tula molds, but mostly never botheres removed the small stams such as the guard stamps. those were all the AKM 6x4 EARLY Type 2 that were preduced from 1965 to 1971, which fits the 1973 Kippur war. i've seen also tula magazines with the star removed the same way but only twice or so. those were issued in small quantities for some elite, small unit. hence, they were taken as war trophies, long ago any collecting colture were present in israel. again - the whole idea wasn't slling or collecting those. just being kept as a war trophie, since they had some great sentimental value. as long as those old veterans pass and their stuff is being sold to dealers or by their families (which most of the tiem do not know the stories of those knives), those are popping, rarely, here and there.
they came from different origins, from combat soldiers who collected them to field investigators that questioned the prisoners in the field, and took their belongings. i have taked to different people that got those bayonets from their grandfathers here in israel, and all had the same story: a unit that was completely wiped out, involving probably some helicopter crush, after being ambushed. that's why some of the items are burnt. (CHECK THE NOTE BELOW!***) there were very few survivors and all the equipment had been taken by our military. some knives made it to the soldiers who kept them as trophies, and again, once they are passing, their belongings are rolling.
also, ive seen at the forums a picture from Ivie's book, of a "so called" egyptian bayonet which we all know that is fake (he was misleaded. nothing about ivie).
compare this crisp mint, percise looking piece for those attached here. would you even think those are similar? have you ever seen an arabig made military equipment in such hi-end manufacturing levels? this one, indeed, guys, is fake - never seen any field use and show's none of the details it sdould show (tula, date, finish level, combat use, ink stamps to cover the origin after grinding). also, NO egyptian bayonet EVER had the Factory 54 (maadi) stamps on it. ever. please do not compare apples and oranges in order to justify a doubt.
and lastly - Me, Tal Kats, Eran Hershkowits and Кирилл Барышников have enough, long term reputation among a lot of the the world wide bayonet's collectors communities - for not being suspected for creating a faking-concern.
for your interest, im attaching some of my egyptian bayonet trophies (withouth the one numbered 15555 (arabic ١٥٥٥٥) and the "אחיק" in handwriting font ("small letters") on it, that had been posted below) - for your information.
enjoy the info and pics here and on the following comments.

Image

Image

Image

and the full picture that was suspected as "altered" in the thread below. any more detailed pictures would be attached per request. i dont posses some of the items anymore, so cant make morte pics of some of them, but i have left here some and have a lot of detailed pictures anyway.

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and as for Martin Ivie's book, if he accepts, i can attach the so called "egyptian" bayonet that made its way to the book, accidently. This one is fake indeed, but i wont post the pictures from the book as i do respect the copyrights. but you can find the detalied ones up on this thread anyway.

PS: if you want' heres another detailed pic of the 15555 (arabic ١٥٥٥٥) and the "אחיק" in handwriting font, from another angle.

Image

i am #sorry_notsorry to ruin the party, but those are not fake, nethier altered or photoshopped. now judge for yourself.
blaming someone for scamming (YES, altering and photoshopping such details in pictures IS INDEED a scam) is a one hell of a SERIOUS accusation.
a lot of high-reputated people such me, Eran, Kirill, Tal, Jacob, and more had been prooving you wrong, and you are still trying to claim and accuse the same. BTW, all of the above have or had egyptian 6x4's made by Tula, seen and handled them. some of them, like me - had five over the years, all came from leftovers from israeli veterans. all the ones in the collectors market came from israel, to the last one. the reasons are stated above.
the minimal reaction i would expect is to get down of the tree you've been climbing and to understand that sometimes it is ok to say "i just don't know".
David.

Re: Egyptian marked Tula 6x4

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:14 pm
by Brian
Ok all, let's just remember that we are all here with a common purpose, and that is to collect and study these bayonets. Sometimes a bit of arguing gets us more info than we had before.
Mike is doing a great job as moderator, and I value his participation. Given the pics that he commented on originally and the discrepancies (angles of sawcuts etc) it's fair and logical for someone to have questions.
Let's get back to what we all do well....scour the world for new info, and share what we can. There is a ton of new stuff still to be discovered, and lots of weird deals that were done. Each collector decides for himself what's important to him, and if something was made somewhere, or just bought and issued elsewhere.
Heavy debate is fine, but let's keep it non personal. Interesting to read all the theories and accumulated facts on Ak bayos.
Let's get back to it.

Re: Egyptian marked Tula 6x4

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:10 pm
by Dragur2791
Brian,
Please let William Michaels answer for himself. He should be able to do that since he called for this. We went through this on the facebook group. He then went silent and took the debate on here instead. He refers to me like this in his last post: “ It also makes the other pictures suspect as well as the ethics of the member that posts them”. I am that MEMBER that he refers to. I have been posting pictures of akbayonets on this site since 2017 and participated in various threads. I run the Facebook page “collecting the ak bayonet” and suddenly william Michaels accuse me of posting “pictures that are obviously fraudulent or altered”. I have never altered or photoshopped any thing.
Brian, of course I will not let that happen that a person with a disgruntled ego accuse me of that. Of course I will say something back and so will any other person.

Brian, instead you should let William Michaels come foreward and let him stand up for him self. He is a grown man, he does not need you to protect him when he makes PERSONAL accusations on other collectors.