Russian 6X5 plum prototype

[Mr. B.]

Did anyone see the post by "Philippes" today on the AKForum.net? Nice pictures of a rare bayonet! M.

[Brian]

I saw it, I want it. I must have it
But that price....is a little....err....optimistic.
http://www.theakforum.net/forums/51-fie ... otype.html

[Mr. B.]

If we could just find someone with a Vektar CR-21 ????? M.

[croblade]

This knife looks very interesting, but $1200 to $1700??? Come on, be realistic...

[Brian]

I'm sure he won't mind sharing the pics in the name of education.
I have seen pics of these from time to time. Yes, lovely to get one, but also not prepared to pay that kinda price.

[MDIvie]

We are all very much of the same mind on the price for this. I'd love to have one, but for what I can buy a very nice AK for, not gonna happen.

[Mr. B.]

I agree that the price seems too high. To me this doesn't seem to be a "prototype". The amount of set-up and tooling required to make these bayonets and scabbards would make it impractical to produce just a few samples. I would rather think that this was a production run for at least field trials as these bayonets appear in many Russian pictures and references. I think that they are more in line with perhaps the aluminum waffle magazines that still show up in surplus lots. At one time they theory was that the aluminum mags were all recalled and destroyed. Perhaps someday quantities of this bayonet may be found and sold as surplus? M.

[croblade]

I agree, this is definitely not prototype...

[JerichoKV]

I have this one, it was found by my friend in 90's. He is not a collector so he never knew what a treasure it was.
In any ways I would say that it is experimental. They were produced in very small amount to test, and never were mass produced.

[Brian]

Good to have you here. We know these were issued based on the serials and signs of use, and they would not have made a mold to only make a few of them, so I suspect there must have been at least a few thousand. You don't pay the cost of a mold for the handle and the scabbard without a decent production run. And there was no 3D printing back then
Russia is a big place, and they might have gone to certain units. Or mostly destroyed after a period of time.
Whatever the case, they are rare, and nice to have. Hopefully one comes my way oneday.

[MDIvie]

Typical MINIMUM test runs for magazines and bayonets from what I gathered years ago form Dr. Kalashnikov would be in the 15000 units for 7.62x39 magazines and 5000 units for bayonets. Note he emphasized the word minimum.
During the same conversation, he was surprised to see my mint condition AL waffle mag and told us that he had ordered all of them destroyed because they were a failure in field trials. Obviously, they weren't destroyed. Also with the large numbers of these that have shown up recently from warehouses in the former Soviet Union the minimum of 15000 may be low.
So this unusual AK74 bayonet would not fall under the true definition of prototype, but would likely fall under the term experimental. I also believe this about some of the 6X4 bayonets that have been seen recently with the black checkered grips.

[ou75id32]

You all forgot that I wrote about this bayonet on old forum and on your photos Brian this bayonet has wrong hanger because this type of bayonet had specific one brown color.. I'll post more photos later, and speaking about "seen on various photos" Mike said I would like to see those photos because I searched over a thousands photos on hundred of Russian sites and in 8 years found only 3 the two are seen after on some forums...
Also I must say something about this bayonet that you all point to ak74 but you will never find it officially in any book attached to it.. I'll show you something later and why is easy to point directly to ak74.. Bayonet was developed in middle 80s and it is only "6x5" that served in Afghanistan war. You can call it "prototype" of 6x5 because later 6x5 "pushed it out"

[ou75id32]

Compared with 6x5 and some details, here you can see original hanger for that bayonet..

[Brian]

Please fix the image links above. I'd prefer pics to be uploaded directly to the forum, otherwise they disappear quickly when hosted externally.

[ilian]

I own 1 scabbard like that but not the bayonet :(

[Brian]

A very lucky member and contact in Europe sent me these 2 pics from the Afghan war days. I'm assuming these are the pics that have appeared on Russian forums. Interesting, appears to show these bayonets in use.
I hope he doesn't mind me posting them, and will gladly give credit if he prefers.

[Mr. B.]

Nice! I wonder if they had some "special" hanger Loris referred to? I can't believe that the Russians would have designated a particular hanger for field testing a new bayonet design with all the issue and rework AKM hangers available and in use at the time, particularly in a combat zone.
Mike

[MDIvie]

Mike,

The original hangers are the standard brown pebbled leather. Loris was referring to fact that the bayonet in the first pictures has a black pebbled leather hanger which is probably a later hanger. I hope to have more intimate knowledge in a week or so of this bayonet.

I was sent some information on the two pictures in Brian's post. The soldier in the middle by the BMP is Oleg Teplov. He served in Afghanistan form September 1986 to August 1988 so that puts the issue of this "experimental" 6X5 into the 1987 or 1988 time frame. The standard plum 6X5 which all of us are familiar with has been designated as the Model 1989 in the Russian book on AK bayonets, which makes sense if it was adopted after the experimental bayonet. Now as to when the color change from plum to black was made I am not sure, but I would guess in 1991 or 1992 but would really like to lock it down.

Martin

[Mr. B.]

That makes sense. I hadn't considered the time line on the brown to black hanger change. It would also be nice to factor into the timeline, the the early plum 6X5 with the narrow cross guard. This may confuse the time line as the "experimental" variation appears to have the same wider cross guard of the standard plum Model 1989. Mike

[Mr. B.]

Pictured below. My issued/numbered early plum 6X5 with the narrow cross guard that came with a brown pebbled hanger. My un-issued/un-numbered later plum 6X5 with the more common wide cross guard also came with a brown pebble hanger. My un-issued/un-numbered black 6X5 was the first one that came with the black pebble hanger. All the other Russian black Russian 6X5s I have came with the black hangers as well. I don't know what this proves, if anything, as hangers are easy to and frequently switched. Just an observation.

Mike