Russian AK47
Moderator: Mr. B.
Russian AK47
A recently acquired Russian AK47 for my collection. Initially I was convinced it is a Finnish example, after further inspection, I'm not so sure it is. The scabbard and hanger appears correct for Finnish but with a drain hole. The numbers on the pommel are not in a straight line as the other examples posted in the forum. No <CB> stamp. I’m not sure what to make of this bayonet.
Re: Russian AK47
Wow, another one of these Russian, Finnish, or other contract bayonets and scabbards. I have seen several similar to this in the last year. Ones like yours bring up more questions than information. They don’t seem to follow any of the identification clues we usually use.
1. Scabbard Body. Early Russian production with 2 bands and two-tone blued finish. All made on the same equipment and to the same specifications. Proof/inspection marks done by different people at different times during production. Supposedly the ones made for Finland 1st contract did not have the usual Russian drain hole in the front. Carry over parts at the beginning and end of a production is possible. A drain hole on a Finnish one would probably not make any difference. A left over one could have a hole added for Russian use.
2. Belt Hanger. Made separately, (sub-contractor?), attached and sewn or riveted in place. Supposedly the ones for Finland were all sewn, the Russian ones used a single rivet. There are references that sewn ones were also used on early Russian ones at times.
3. Bayonet. Standard Russian production. The only difference is in the stamped markings. The ones made for and accepted by the Russian military must have a “CB” in a flattened diamond on the right side of the pommel. Those made for others should not have this mark. The serial numbers style and placement have also been used as identification. This is also inconsistent as it is hand stamped by different people at different times using different dies. No exact requirements? (More to follow). Mike
1. Scabbard Body. Early Russian production with 2 bands and two-tone blued finish. All made on the same equipment and to the same specifications. Proof/inspection marks done by different people at different times during production. Supposedly the ones made for Finland 1st contract did not have the usual Russian drain hole in the front. Carry over parts at the beginning and end of a production is possible. A drain hole on a Finnish one would probably not make any difference. A left over one could have a hole added for Russian use.
2. Belt Hanger. Made separately, (sub-contractor?), attached and sewn or riveted in place. Supposedly the ones for Finland were all sewn, the Russian ones used a single rivet. There are references that sewn ones were also used on early Russian ones at times.
3. Bayonet. Standard Russian production. The only difference is in the stamped markings. The ones made for and accepted by the Russian military must have a “CB” in a flattened diamond on the right side of the pommel. Those made for others should not have this mark. The serial numbers style and placement have also been used as identification. This is also inconsistent as it is hand stamped by different people at different times using different dies. No exact requirements? (More to follow). Mike
Re: Russian AK47
I just checked my 1st contract Finnish bayonet. I found only one “X” on the scabbard flange. Mine is in New condition and the are no other proof marks. It is one of the three in the last picture below.
4. Serial numbers. Supposably the 4 digit serial numbers stamped on the left side of the pommel are different between the Russian an Finnish bayonets. The old rule was the Russian ones followed the curve of the pommel. The Finnish ones were on an angle and in a straight line. In my opinion they were somewhat random depending on when they were stamped and who was doing it. No actual specifications or requirements.
(The bayonet above is the 1st time that I have seen the numbers vertical and stair stepped.)
Below at top is the bayonet in this post. The next 2 are Russian. The last one is of 3 Finnish numbers.
4. Serial numbers. Supposably the 4 digit serial numbers stamped on the left side of the pommel are different between the Russian an Finnish bayonets. The old rule was the Russian ones followed the curve of the pommel. The Finnish ones were on an angle and in a straight line. In my opinion they were somewhat random depending on when they were stamped and who was doing it. No actual specifications or requirements.
(The bayonet above is the 1st time that I have seen the numbers vertical and stair stepped.)
Below at top is the bayonet in this post. The next 2 are Russian. The last one is of 3 Finnish numbers.
- 68690283-0D5A-4719-9843-C0453A6E65C5.jpeg (90.11 KiB) Viewed 1678 times
- 7B4852F0-BCAF-4BC8-B7C7-D2A407F0D447.jpeg (38.08 KiB) Viewed 1678 times
- 6E63C18D-0D89-451B-B158-12B6ED2DCEB2.jpeg (40.45 KiB) Viewed 1678 times
Re: Russian AK47
Also remember that these bayonets and scabbards are not paired or matched with each other. They can be changed and switched around by anyone, for any reason, at any time. Without the Russian military “CB” stamp they are not for Russian issue or use. The unmarked ones could be made for export or contract or sales to another country. Unmarked ones also could have failed the inspection and be reused.
Re: Russian AK47
In my opinion the bayonet and scabbard at the start of this thread are from the Finnish 1st contract. Based only on the lack of the Russian military acceptance on the bayonet and the belt hanger on the scabbard. Just a guess, an unusual example. Mike
Re: Russian AK47
Mike,
I hoped you would find this example interesting. Thank you for taking the time to examine this one. Your knowledge is appreciated and absorbed.
Your assessment makes sense to me and until I hear a solid argument against it, I will consider this a Finnish 1st contract and mark it off the wishlist.
I hoped you would find this example interesting. Thank you for taking the time to examine this one. Your knowledge is appreciated and absorbed.
Your assessment makes sense to me and until I hear a solid argument against it, I will consider this a Finnish 1st contract and mark it off the wishlist.