Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Hungarian AK Bayonets
User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Mr. B. » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:14 pm

I noticed this, "New, in the wrap", Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I bayonet and scabbard with modified pommel on eBay recently. This modification has been around for some time. Usually it is found on used or reworked Hungarian and East German bayonets. Pictures and information about this modification can be found in several references. Sometimes the work is very crude and other time uniform and professionally done.

One has to question why the Hungarians would redesign the molds and assemble the modified style grips on new bayonets at this point in time.
Perhaps to upgrade new old stock bayonets or to produce new bayonets for the international market using the existing obsolete machinery? M.
Modified Hungarian 6X3 1.jpg
Modified Hungarian 6X3 2.jpg
Modified Hungarian 6X3 3.jpg
Modified Hungarian 6X3 4.jpg

ilian
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby ilian » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:25 am

If i had a milling machine i will do hundreds of bayonets like that (a bit of sanding and polishing and job is done).

I saw many years ago some bayonets like that but i'm still asking myself how it could exist new bayonet with milled grips...
Hungary didn't produce any AK74. But i saw some pics took in an hungarian museum with hungarian AKM 63 with T2 bayonet?
Hungarian made i don't know...

So i do agree with you when you say that is a modification for an other country, but who made it? Hungarian military arsenal? Or the country who bought those?

Dragur2791
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Dragur2791 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:05 pm

I bought this one after a few considerations. Price was high, but lower than stated on ebay. Received today. In original wrap as stated and in excellent condition except for the insulator. Luckily I got a spare from the seller in Hungaria. :-)
Btw this is my first post - so hi ;)
Jacob
Attachments
44817ADE-5111-403C-881B-331ED09AF43B.jpeg
D4DC9BC4-268F-4849-ADED-A80BA27F046B.jpeg
A451A020-FD63-46C3-9E87-5FADB2D6EF4B.jpeg
9E674DEB-2B6A-4FCA-B561-1D548C30A9BB.jpeg
0EEB0E67-1E3D-4640-9F6D-A1E5EADD01F6.jpeg

Dragur2791
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Dragur2791 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:35 pm

Here again with a few additional pics
Attachments
2FA5F3BF-FA40-4957-8C9B-A9B2B39C380B.jpeg
1FEA3AB6-961F-4854-B748-5ED822DD31A0.jpeg
66F47C81-27B6-475C-BB17-913BD783DE5F.jpeg
FB9282E1-367F-49C0-B719-6ADD17DDC6F8.jpeg

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Mr. B. » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:51 am

I found a reference to this modification in a German collectors book. "Das Kalashnikow Bajonett" by Ulric Seidemann, (2002). It is in the Hungarian section. The text translation is: "There is a variant in which in the area of the planting groove the plastic material of the handle is very cleanly cut off. Thus, over the planting groove is now a flat plane of about 22mm the purpose of this change is unknown." Mike
Scan_20180821 (6).jpg
Last edited by Mr. B. on Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Mr. B. » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:18 am

Here is another set of pictures and information from a Polish book, "Bagnety" by Zbigniew Gwozdz (2012). These pictures and accompanying text were found in the Hungarian section. This is the Polish text followed by the translation:
"W niewielkich ilosciach spotykane sa rowniez bagnety wegierskie z obcieta glowicowa czescia rekojesci. brak jednak blizszych informacji czemu ta modyficacja miala sluzyc. Istnieja przypuszczenia ze bagnety te mogly byc stosowane w karabinkach feg-ngm zaopatrzonych w szczelinowy tlumik plomieni."
"In small quantities, there are also Hungarian bayonets with a reduction in the part of the handle. However, there is no closer information about why this modification was to serve. There is a suspicion that these bayonets could be used in FEG-NGM carabiners equipped with a gap-type flint muffler."
From this translation I would understand perhaps to fit a shortened version of the AKM and/or with some type of muzzle attachment. Maybe a compensator, flash hider, silencer or grenade spigot? Mike

Scan_20180821 (7).jpg
Scan_20180821 (8).jpg

Dragur2791
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Dragur2791 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:28 am

Great and interesting information!!

The challenge is now to find an early type marbled numbered with that modified pommel, like in the Polish book! Probably not that easy!!

ilian
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby ilian » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:36 am

this one look suspicious to me... the one owned by Mike look good (perfect fishish, square machined and polished)

This one seems "hand made" with file marks and not parallel with the guard...

Dragur2791
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Dragur2791 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:56 am

Possibly it was “handmade” on a later note?. Some of these bayonets were perhaps made this way from the start using a different mould, and others were modified later under more crude conditions by hand. That could maybe explain the unparallel areas.
Here is pics of another early type modified

http://www.nirvi.fi/nnbm/page267.html

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Mr. B. » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:00 pm

Thanks for the link with the pictures. It looks like it features a modified early Hungarian style with a marbled grip and serial numbers that you were looking for. I sure wish we could find more information about why these modifications were made to both Hungarian and East German 6X3 bayonets and what they were modified to mount on. Mike

ilian
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby ilian » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:11 pm

it could be possible i guess ;)

But another mystery to resolve modifed for what rifle?
East german modified them for AK74 but why hungarian? there don't have any AK74 rifle...

Dragur2791
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Dragur2791 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:22 am

It surely is a mystery! And interesting that only East Germany and Hungaria made this modification, out of all the AK producing/using countries.

But after a few google searches this info comes up:
Hungaria did actually produce an ak74 type rifle, designated the NGM-81. It was briefly produced between 81-90. used internally and also offered for export which may explain why only few modified export/numbered bayonets were ever made.
Jacob

http://www.hungariae.com/NGM81.htm

https://bashny.net/t/en/207582

http://weaponland.ru/load/avtomat_shtur ... 1/9-1-0-17
Attachments
0F07AB0D-4C8C-4C96-BEB6-95306143DC72.jpeg
0F07AB0D-4C8C-4C96-BEB6-95306143DC72.jpeg (15.56 KiB) Viewed 956 times
BE7175FD-2B30-46F7-9488-AC98000E01C0.jpeg
BE7175FD-2B30-46F7-9488-AC98000E01C0.jpeg (32.13 KiB) Viewed 956 times

ilian
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby ilian » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:23 am

It's not really an AK74 type rifle because the bayonet lug is on the gas block the NGM81 could fit 6x3 so need to modify bayonet to fit this rifle ;)

It's a copy of an AKM in 5.56x45 so there is no AK74 type rifle (with "zig zag" flash hider and bayonet lug on front sight) made in Hungaria ;)

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Mr. B. » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:19 pm

I agree, probably not a FEG-NGM, But how about a first cousin. The Hungarian AMP-69 is a version of the 7.62x39mm AKM, but with a modified with an integral grenade launcher spigot on the muzzle. Is that a bayonet mounting stud I see at the rear of the spigot near the front sight base? Mike

hungarian-amp-69.jpg
AMP69_19_zpsvxx053md.jpg
Hungarian-AMP-69-2.jpg
Hungarian-AMP-69-2.jpg (20.47 KiB) Viewed 940 times

Dragur2791
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Dragur2791 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:52 am

That is a very qualified guess Mike :-) and indeed a very interesting AK variant!
I mailed the hungarian seller of the modified bayonet to ask of his thoughts - he agrees that it’s not meant to sit on the NGM-81. The NGM was an experimental piece that never used by the army. It only left Hungaria in very small portions.

However his confident that the modified ones were just meant for the regular AKM63, offering more easy installation due to the mod.
Jacob

ilian
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby ilian » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:14 am

A friend own one i can ask to lock a bayonet on it but i don't think it could fit...

Dragur2791
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Dragur2791 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:22 pm

Would be interesting - in that way we could eliminate the possibility! :-)

User avatar
MDIvie
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Allen, TX, USA

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby MDIvie » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:44 pm

Guys,

I've owned 3 AMP 69's at various times. The little protrusion in the picture at the back of the spigot people are thinking might be a bayonet lug is not. It is a spring loaded pin with a head used to lock the spigot sleeve on the barrel. Much too small to fit a bayonet, plus it is round.

MDI

ilian
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby ilian » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:56 pm

I suspected it, thanks for your explanations

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Hungarian AKM 6X3 Type I Modified Pommel?

Postby Mr. B. » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:10 pm

Good to know. Thanks for the confirmation MDI. The pictures I had were not that clear about what the protrusion was. I went back again and found a picture with spigot outer tube removed, definitely not a bayonet stud. Mike


Return to “Hungary”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest