AK47 Bayonet identification

[Brian]

Does anyone have the time and inclination to draft up a little AK47 bayo identification guide?
I find it far easier to identify Type I's and II's, but often when looking at an AK47 bayonet, I find it very hard to decide if it is Russian or Bulgarian or Finnish or whatever....
The rules about drain hole sides don't seem set in stone, and the serial number orientation guides often slip my mind.
It is east to see if it is a Polish or Chinese one (usually) but there are a lot of others out there, with different hangers and grip colours and scabbards, and it would be of great benefit to have a guide that we can maybe add to.

Any takers?

[Mr. B.]

OK .... I'll take the challenge. I'll try to illustrate the basic differences and identifying points here and cover the more detailed points under the individual countries on this Forum as needed. We already have some detailed discussion on the AK47 bayonets under the Russia, Finland, North Korea headings. Before starting, most of what I know, or think I know, comes from Martin D. Ivie's book, "Kalashnikov Bayonets". This book should be a prerequisite for all those interested in AK bayonets. It gives us all a common starting point to be able to understand, identify and discuss these bayonets. Mike

[Mr. B.]

The AK47 bayonet is the very first Kalashnikov bayonet designed and issued. Due to it's age, there is a lack of information available concerning it's history. All of the AK47 bayonets themselves are pretty much identical in appearance and difficult to identify as to country of manufacture and issue. Some have manufactures marks, proof marks and other small marks that help, many have none. The placement and style of serial numbers also may help when present. However many of these bayonets and parts were interchanged between various ComBloc countries blurring the lines between countries of manufacture, assembly and issue. This mixture is also compounded as many of these bayonets found today have been recalled, reworked and reissued in a wide variety of countries. Mike

[Mr. B.]

Quick visual identification for me starts with the scabbard as the bayonets are so much the same. Look for the different scabbard front attachment bands. Single split band, (Russia, Finland, Bulgaria, Romania, DDR, N. Korea, China). Double band, (Russia, Finland, Bulgaria, Romania). No bands, (Poland). These are just general rules as there are always accidental, intentional and rework interchanges to be found. Mike

[Mr. B.]

Scabbard hanger bars / brackets (front view) are usually different shapes and are secured to the scabbard by spot or contact welds. Below are single split hangers: 1st is Russian, Finland, Bulgarian, Romanian style. 2nd is smaller Chinese style. 3rd is larger, close together N. Korean style. Mike

[Mr. B.]

Further AK47 scabbard bar attachment variations: 1st double bar, Russia, Finland, Bulgaria and Romania style. 2nd is split double bar, East Germany, (DDR), only. 3rd is plain / no bar, Poland only. Mike

[Mr. B.]

Scabbard hilt retaining strap variations, from the front. Strap orientation. Does the out side strap point right or left. If it points right it could be; 1st Russia, 2nd Finland, 3rd Poland, 4th DDR, 5th N. Korea. Also note the DDR ones have fabric straps with snap fasteners, not studs. Mike

[Mr. B.]

More AK47 hilt strap identification. If the outside strap points left it could be from; 1st and 2nd Bulgaria and Romania, or 3rd China. Also note the Chinese ones have a leather strap with snaps. not studs. Mike

[Mr. B.]

One last scabbard point, (pardon the pun), for today. To identify scabbards, observe the type of point style and the position or lack there of, of a drain hole in the tip of the scabbard. If the drain hole is in the front and it has a large flat flange it is from: 1st Russia, 2nd N. Korea. If it has a small flange and a hole in the front; 3rd China. Large flange and drain hole in back: 4th Bulgaria and Romania. Large flange NO drain hole: 4th Finland and DDR. No flange and no drain hole: 5th Poland. Mike

[Mr. B.]

There are many different finishes on the AK47 bayonets and scabbards. Also many different styles and materials used in the permanently(?) attached hangers. These points are complicated by the amount of interchange, mixing and reworking. One other key method of scabbard is manufacturing the scabbard. The N. Korean scabbard is made from a flat piece of metal rolled and spot welded to form a tube and has a seam down the side. The Polish scabbards are formed by extrusion molding on a mandrel and have no flanges or spot welding. All others are formed by using a flattened seamless tube with pressed, spot welded flanges to form the tip. Mike

[Brian]

Excellent info so far!
I had missed the fact that Romania even had an AK47 bayonet. Damn..one more I will need. Any peculiarities to it, to look for specifically?

[Mr. B.]

There are also a couple hybrid AK 47 bayonets that I omitted. One is a "transitional" N. Korean bayonet with an AK 47 hilt and attaching method. However it has the blade and scabbard from the newer AKM style bayonet. I do not have one of these so picture is borrowed. The other one is a newly designed and made in Bulgaria bayonet to fit on early AK47 rifles. They have a modified version of the AK47 hilt and the blade and scabbard of a AKM 6X4 type II bayonet. I do have one of these, but for convenience a borrowed picture Mike

[MDIvie]

A couple of comments/questions.
Are not "Finish" AK47 bayonets actually Russian bayonets sold to Finland along with a ton of other AK47 parts?
Are "Romanian" AK47 bayonets actually Romanian made or are they just Bulgarian manufctured bayonets surplussed via Romanian?
Since Romania never made a AK47 variant, Only AKM and Ak74 variants, I do not see why they would manufacture AK47 type bayonets.
Also, Hungary made an AK47 Type 3 variant rifle, why are there no Hungarian Ak47 bayonets?

BTW, I put most of this in an article that I sold to be published by the folks that put out the annual AK and Kalashnikovs magazine, but it has never been published. I also, have a chart that I need to find out where it went to.

MDI

[Mr. B.]

I believe that the "Finnish" bayonets are collectible as such and not "Russian". Yes, the bayonet, or at least the cross guard part was made and stamped by the Izhevsk Arsenal in Russia. Whether they were supplied to Finland as parts or completed assemblies is unknown. However they do not appear to have been completed in Russia. They have no Russian proof or acceptance marks or numbering. Most obvious is the lack of the "CB" in the flattened diamond on the pommel and the number placement and style. Also the final finish is different than the Russian bluing. Finnish ones are found blued, painted black and with a phosphate type finish.. Most telling are the scabbards, They are found plain or with the Bulgarian tu-tone sanding not used by Russia. They are found blued, painted or a phosphate finish. They do not have a drain hole, (front=Russian), or (rear=Bulgarian). The fabric hanger has the leather hilt strap attached by sewing, not buy a single (Russian) or double (Bulgarian) rivet. The Finnish ones are also found with a black leather hanger unlike any other countries. The majority of these Finnish bayonets are in new unused condition and have come directly from Finnish surplus. To me they are not modified or reworked bayonets or scabbards purched as surplus. The bayonets and scabbard may have been supplied as parts, incomplete or unfinished items and completed by Finland or supplied as completed under contract to Finnish specs. As proof of this theory, I offer the following evidence. In the early days of the AK47 in the East ComBloc countries parts, machinery and technology were exchanged among the various countries led by the USSR. Russian equipment and parts were found everywhere. Complete AK47 bayonets and parts were found in almost all the other member countries. The Izhevsk triangle and arrow has been found on the cross guard of early Bulgarian, Polish, DDR and Finnish bayonets. Mike

[Mr. B.]

In the first years of the Kalashnikov weapons system the USSR supplied the weapons and the ability to manufacture them to all the ComBloc countries. I believe that Hungary, as well as other ComBloc countries may have used completed weapons, including bayonets and scabbards, supplied by and from Russia. In some cases it was easier to use these items or as a stop gap before starting their own production, (with equipment supplied by Russia?). My research indicates that the Hungarians used Russian or possibly Bulgarian supplied AK47 bayonets and never had the desire or ability to manufacture their own. Maybe this would also help answer the questions about the different versions of the Bulgarian AK47 bayonets and numbering!? Mike

[Mr. B.]

MDI, you are probably correct. Romania may not have ever made an AK47 bayonet. However, I re-read your chapter on Bulgarian, (Romanian?), AK47 bayonets and still believe I have a Romanian one. It is not the same one you describe, but a different one. It is the first Kalashnikov bayonet I ever obtained. Back in the 1970s, a fellow collector / dealer had received a box of AK47 bayonets and was selling them as "Russian". The labels on the box and the customs import forms all indicated the were from Romania and the seller admitted that they were Romanian, but the same as the Russian ones. These bayonets were all the same except for the numbers. They were brand new, covered in grease, wrapped in waxed paper, and tied with string. You do mention and picture them as Bulgarian in your book. They were pretty much the same as the Bulgarian ones I have seen since then with the following exceptions. The numbers are a larger font and style and the all leather hanger is to me Romanian. It has the Romanian reddish brown color and finish with the embossed edge lines similar to the early Romanian 6X3 Type I one and two piece snap hook hangers as well as other Romanian leather items. The Bulgarians did have similar leather, but usually without the embossed edges. Even though the Romanians may not have used them, perhaps the Romanians did produce or complete them for other ComBloc countries? For me this bayonet will always be Romanian, in spite of logic telling me otherwise!? Mike

[MDIvie]

Mike, thanks for the great replies.
I have, unfortunately, not run into a bayonet as you describe being Finnish.
I do have the one "Bulgarian" AK47 with the larger font. It is interesting in that the metal finish on the knife looks more like Romanian salt blue than the nice blue used by the Bulgarians and Russians. The scabbard that came with it the stereotypical Bulgarian single band.
I now own a Bulgarian bayonet with serial number 4115 in the smaller font and it has the typical darker blue finish.
As I stated in my book, serial number 4114 was sold to me as being Romanian. With your information, I am beginning to believe that these bayonets were indeed assembled in Romania. Whether they are from domestically produced parts or from Bulgarian supplied parts or from a combination thereof, I am not sure, but I lean toward the latter.

[Mr. B.]

I previously posted pictures of 3 different versions of my Finnish AK47 bayonets under the Finland section of this Forum, hopefully that will help illustrate my comments. If would help, I will be glad to provide more pictures and or details on request. Mike

[MDIvie]

Mike, here is an AK47 bayonet currently on EBAY. By the font, I would categorize it as Romanian per our previous discussions. What do you think?

[Brian]

I do hope so....'cos I bought it
Will be a while before it gets to a friend in the USA, and eventually to me, but we will have to wait and see.