Wazzit?

For the Identification of Unknown AK Bayonets and Related Discussion such as Displaying, Use, etc
User avatar
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:59 am
Location: Stadt Reval

Wazzit?

Postby Bruno » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:03 pm

Handle parts are from aluminium..
Blade is much thicker than in regular AK47 bayos (can´t use regular AK47 scabbards)..
No any markings..
Supposedly brought from Vietnam..

So - wazzit :idea:
Attachments
1.JPG
2.JPG
3.JPG
4.JPG
5.JPG

User avatar
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:59 am
Location: Stadt Reval

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Bruno » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:05 pm

..other pics
Attachments
6.JPG
7.JPG
8.JPG
9.JPG
10.JPG

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Mr. B. » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:08 am

It is a crude hand made copy / replica. Supposedly made in China and imported from there. Several of these have been listed / sold on eBay and other sites in the last several years. Most of them from the same importer /dealer with ties to China. However they could also have come from Pakistan, (Khyber Pass?), India, Indonesia or even unified Viet Nam. Most of the dimensions vary from the originals and no two are the same. The one I examined would not mount on an AK47. They do not compare with any military bayonets and scabbard from any ComBloc country. They are different in materials, construction and finish and the scabbards do not have belt hangers or internal parts. Mike

ilian
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Wazzit?

Postby ilian » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:55 am

Chinese sh*t copy ....

User avatar
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:59 am
Location: Stadt Reval

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Bruno » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:07 pm

Can´t be agree with that appraisal as SHIT :lol:
Having been bayonet collector for some 12 years, have some 300+ bayos within my collection (close to 50 of them belongs to AK topic). Wanted to say that I´ve seen enough what is REALLY SHIT - this bayonet is not.

The same applies to phrase "crudely made" - I would say it´s pretty carefully made and even elegant 8-)

Blade measurements are interesting:
- regular soviet AK47 blade is 5mm thick at the beginning of fuller and only 3,5mm at the end of fuller
- this bayo is both at the beginning and end of fuller 6mm thick (similarly to famous k98 bayo)

So - are there some ohter opinions // more interesting than just "shit" :-)

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Mr. B. » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:46 pm

I agree with, but refrained from using the vulgar word and stand by my "crudely made" statement.

I have collected general bayonets of the world for over 50 years, (over 1000), and specialized in Kalashnikov military bayonets, (over 500), for over 25 years. I have shelves full of reference books and a large collection of pictures and other information. I will be the first to admit that I do not know everything about the subject. I make mistakes, accept corrections and other's opinions. I enjoy the challenge of acquiring new knowledge about my collecting interests and seem to learn something new almost daily.

That being said, a copy is still just that, a copy, and for me, not a collectable. Copies. fakes, replicas, what ever you want to call them. Regardless of who, where, why and how detailed they were made is not important. For me collecting involves original items and not copies.

Yes, someone went through a lot of time and effort to hand make that bayonet and scabbard. Probably using available materials and basic tools. Besides, why make a copy of no particular item when original collectable ones are available and inexpensive. Somehow the word "elegant" referring to this bayonet is no more appropriate than the other word used. Matter of personal taste I assume.

I say "crude" because compared to the real article it isn't even close in dimensions, materials, finish or completeness. You can confirm this from the blade measurements in the above post. For me, it doesn't even look like the real thing, a crude copy, like Frankenstein.

To each, his own when collecting anything. I will be the first to admit I have a few copies, fakes and replicas in my collection. But I am the also the first to admit and declare that, if I am aware of it. Sometimes just because I like them. Others to represent rare, hard to find or afford items. Mike

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Mr. B. » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:00 pm

This is an example of a well made, (perhaps even "elegant"), Chinese replica of a "Bulgarian AK47 Bayonet". Regardless, it's still just a copy. I believe it even came from the same importer / dealer as the crude copy at the start of this post. Note the "China" mark on the blade fuller. Mike
Chinese Replica 1.jpg
Chinese Replica 1.jpg (40.19 KiB) Viewed 530 times

User avatar
furtium
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:19 am
Location: Idaho

Re: Wazzit?

Postby furtium » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:25 pm

I'll bet the blade has a very distinct odor to it. I bought a fake off ebay cheaply a while ago just to check it out with similar looking metal and it smells really odd like like hot brakes. Don't know where it originated from, but suspect Pakistan, China, etc.

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Mr. B. » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:28 am

Furtium bring up another clue to the identity of this bayonet and scabbard and explains the finish or lack there of. A lot of the copies are made of soft/mild steel because it is cheaper and easier to make it work with. Sometime they use hard or alloy steel, but heat treat, (anneal), it to soften it for working. They also use what ever scrap metal is available / cheap. After forming the parts they heat treat it again and quench it in oil, (used motor oil?) to harden the metal. Since they are copies there are no specifications or testing. Some are too soft for a true weapon, others are too hard resulting in brittleness. The oil quenching results in the irregular finish look and gives it the antique appearance look, (and hot metal odor),. This also make the metal hard to paint, blue, parkerize or apply most other finishes. It's also much less expensive to leave the metal bare without bothering to apply any finish. Also note that all the real Kalashnikov AK47 ComBloc bayonets have a hard chrome like finish on the blade. The is hard to match and expensive to apply to a hand made copy. Mike

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Mr. B. » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:01 am

Another clue it is a copy are the aluminum grip panels. Has any one ever seen a real original AK47 bayonet with aluminum grips? Most have either wood or some form of molded plastic type material grip panels. Aluminum is a soft metal and easy to work with hand tools or a simple mill. It also has a low melting point and is easy to cast copies using a small furnace and a lost wax process. A cheap, simple easy way to make the grips. Mike

User avatar
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:59 am
Location: Stadt Reval

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Bruno » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:14 am

Good points, Mike..

Just the main logical Q-n is not answered at all - what might be the rational behind to put a lot of resource for "handycrafting" this kind of item just for some miserable piece of money :?: For me the input/output comparison here seems not suited for market economy - so, I can´t see the point :rotfl:

Somehow the word "elegant" referring to this bayonet is no more appropriate than the other word used. Matter of personal taste I assume.

..agree - matter of taste 8-)

User avatar
Mr. B.
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:42 pm
Location: Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Mr. B. » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:13 pm

I agree, Bruno..

The logic Q-n thing bothers me as well. I am logical and analytical by nature. This causes many concerns when collecting things. There are people that make copies or modify existing items to make a profit. Some that know what they are doing are quite good at it and are difficult to detect. There are other people who are just plain gullible or deceitful. They who try to pass things off that are just obviously wrong.

I guess the answer to the question is that anyone including a non-serious collector may enjoy possessing an item like this for a variety of reasons(?). Use your imagination and read some of the descriptions on eBay. Perhaps it is a war trophy someone's grand father liberated in Italy during the Vietnam conflict. Or maybe a presentation gift from North Korean leader Kim Jong-un. Most likely though, it's probably a novelty someone picked up at an antique store in Estonia!? ;) It's true value is only what someone is welling to pay for it. :surrender: Mike

User avatar
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:59 am
Location: Stadt Reval

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Bruno » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:23 pm

I tried to use my imagination, Mike, but I still didn´t understand very much your last post - perhaps it was just tooooo sophisticated for me :?
You mentioned about "non-serious collectors" - what kind of bad people those are // in what countries they are living :shock:

But anyway, Mike - I´m enjoing your sence of humour and native english(-pardon - americaenglish) :mrgreen:

ilian
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Wazzit?

Postby ilian » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:08 am

We can find here in EU bulgarian new AK bayonets in crate for 30€ a piece, so what's the interest to do some copy of cheap thing like that?

people who don't know could buy a copy (or not), but i saw a lot of non collectors buying real AK bayonets for exemple because they so them in a movie or just because it's un "fun" item.

(Sorry for my bad level of englih).

Marco
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:38 am
Location: RENNES

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Marco » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:59 pm

Hello, just want to say my opinion about. Last sunday, i was in a french gunshow in RENNES town. I could see a lot of AK (not AKM) bayonets in a top very nice condition. But all were fakes. Blued blades, parkerised blades, lot of materials for the handle, and for me, not the smell of the typical grease on the blade. So here is my opinion : Be careful, make AK fakes bayonets is in the time! you can see all finition and colors of handles! I am not a specialist as Mike, but I spent lot of time in my looking on the web to know that there is a market for fakes. Marco.

ilian
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Wazzit?

Postby ilian » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:09 pm

Are you talking about these?
Attachments
copie bayo ak.gif

Marco
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:38 am
Location: RENNES

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Marco » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:13 pm

Hi ilian,
Yes, but for a part. I could see a lot of different variations of this pict. All with black or parkerised or blued blades and all materials for the handle. This is the same in France for the chinese TYPE 81, now we have here a lot of fakes. Marco.

ilian
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Wazzit?

Postby ilian » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:21 pm

I live in France too ;)

J'habite en France aussi ;)

Marco
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:38 am
Location: RENNES

Re: Wazzit?

Postby Marco » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:29 pm

Bien le bonjour ilian!
Tu aurais pu le dire avant que je ne m'arrache dans mon anglais/américain sommaire!Tu es d'ou?

ilian
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 7:13 pm
Location: France

Re: Wazzit?

Postby ilian » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:31 pm

Je te réponds par MP


Return to “AK Bayonet Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest