Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Finnish AK and Valmet Bayonets
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Mr. B.
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Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby Mr. B. » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:37 am

These three bayonets and scabbards are from Finland, but have Russian Izhesvk arsenal marks, (arrow in triangle,) on the left side of the cross guard. All three came from Finland in like new, unused condition, coated with grease and hangers wrapped in wax paper and tied with string. All three have 4 digit serial numbers stamped on the left side of the pommel at a 45 degree angle. Descriptions as follow, left to right: First a black painted finish, with a one piece hanger bracket and a smooth leather hilt strap. Center one is blued finish, with a two bar bracket and a pebble grain leather hilt strap. The last one has a blued finish, a two bar hanger bracket and an all black leather hanger with the hilt strap attached with a single bright domed rivet. Note: the last two scabbards with the two bar hanger brackets have a sanded finish similar to a Bulgarian ak47 scabbard. All three scabbards are without drian holes. The first two have fabric hangers with a sewn on leather hilt strap. M.
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Mr. B.
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby Mr. B. » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:39 am

More Finnish AK47 pictures. M.
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croblade
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby croblade » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:13 pm

Thank you for photos. I keep these bayonets as Russian because they were produced by IZHMASH. Same I keep "Cuban" AKM bayonets as N. Korean.

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Mr. B.
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby Mr. B. » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:12 pm

I agree. I display them right next to the Russian ones as well. M.

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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby porterkids » Wed May 18, 2016 3:42 am

I picked this up several years ago. It was identified as Finnish by the seller. I haven't done any research on it.

Finnish 47-1.JPG


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Finnish 47-3.JPG


Finnish 47-4.JPG

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Mr. B.
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby Mr. B. » Wed May 18, 2016 8:06 pm

It certainly meets my idea of criteria to be Finnish. Numbers are Finnish style and in pretty much a straight line at an angle. The finish on the metal on the bayonet and scabbard look right. No drain hole on the scabbard and the hilt loop is sewn to the hilt strap and crosses correctly. However, the hanger fabric is very unique, I've never seen that before. Perhaps for some special uniform use!? Also I have never seen one that had crossed out /re-stamped numbers, (twice!). Guess that adds to my theory, maybe reused/reissued for special usage, ie. special unit, dress, parade, ceremonial, honor guard etc.????? Mike

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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby mill_speer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:59 pm

Finland M.47
There were two contracts - deliveries of M.47 Bayonets
In the Period 1956-7 about 1500 pieces with wooden handles.
For the Arsenal storage the wooden handle shells were changed to plastic shells.
Finnish M.47 with wooden handle scales are absolutely rare.:((
I have only seen 2nd piece so far.
The second delivery in 1959 was about 30,000 pieces
Almost all were stored in depots.
In the 60 years few were sold,
whether the original with wooden handle shells were unknown to me.
As of 2014, I observed M.47 holdings in trading.
Unfortunately I have misplaced my notes, I have written this post from memories.
Errors may be possible.
Attachments
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Russ Finnland (5).JPG
Last edited by mill_speer on Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby mill_speer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:06 pm

More photos

Best Regards
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby mill_speer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:18 pm

@Porterkids
Unfortunately, I can not accept your M.47 as Finnish.

Very early Russian M.47 scabbards with the circumferential bands often have no hole in the end.

I'll show you a russian bayonet M.47 with an East German M.47 scabbard, which has a Russian webbing loop.

Best regards
Attachments
Russ.- DDR M.47 (1).JPG
Russ.- DDR M.47 (2).JPG
Russ.- DDR M.47 (3).JPG

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Mr. B.
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby Mr. B. » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:58 am

After studying the pictures of Porterkid's and mill_speer's bayonets and scabbards above with the striped fabric hangers, I've come to the following conclusions. Both bayonets were made at Izhevsk in Russia due to the arsenal mark on the crossguard. Both could be Russian or Finnish contract with the original 4 digit numbers on the left side of the pommel. Probably not Russian as I see no Russian proof/acceptance marks, (CB in a diamond, etc.) on the right side of the pommel. This eliminates Russian use or issue. Both bayonets have been re-numbered / reworked. This eliminates Finnish ownership as the Finnish bayonets were supposedly never used or issued. The first scabbard could be Finnish, Russian or Bulgarian. Finnish due to no drain hole or else undrilled Russian or Bulgarian. The second scabbard is definitely East German 1st variation. Both scabbards have been reworked with the drag, (tension spring), retaining rivet drilled out and replaced. Also the hangers do not appear to be Finnish or Russian in materials or construction. However they do appear to be very similar to each other. Especially the use of the striped fabric belt loop. The leather hilt loops are also similar in shape but different from either the Russian or Finnish ones. Also note the screw on style stud on the one above. Considering all the points above, I conclude that both these bayonets and scabbards have been reworked and re-numbered by someone other than Russia or Finland. Perhaps either Russia of Finland sold or traded the original contract bayonets to another ComBloc or third world country where the were eventually reworked and reissued. Mike

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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby Mr. B. » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:23 am

Back on the Finnish AK47 subject, more questions and a theory. Mill_Speer, after reading your posts and studying the pictures I notice something. You state two different Finnish contracts and deliveries from Russia over an unknown period of time. From the pictures you used to illustrate this, is it safe to assume that the earliest (1st) contract could have used only the early style Russian scabbard with two separate hanger bands and the two tone sanded blued finished? The later (2nd) contract would then use only the later style Russian scabbards with the one piece stamped hanger bracket and solid blued or painted scabbard? That would correspond with the 3 bayonets I pictured at the top of this post. Is it possible to use this info to differentiate between the two Finnish contracts? Mike

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mill_speer
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby mill_speer » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:11 am

Generally in the first deliveries are scabbards with the two straps.

The sheaths do not always have the same surface finish.
It can also be sheaths with unprocessed raw surface, or as in the photo.
I have no idea why that is. : ((

Generally, all have no hole at the end of the Scabbard and are always sewn with green thread securing straps.
Please also note the position of the screws.

The license for the construction of the AK 47 was bought by the Poles.
Russia has delivered no AK 47 rifles to Finland.

Unfortunately, I did not pay much attention to searching in the boxes, not so much for the scabbards, I concentrated more on the different acceptance stamps, that was all so fatty!

Can you tell me when you get your Finn. M47 bayonets Bought?
I think, gunbrooker three years ago ?!
Best Regards
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Mr. B.
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Re: Finland AK47 Bayonet and Scabbard Variations

Postby Mr. B. » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:40 am

I bought the first 2 directly from a collector friend in Finland about 15 years ago. He had 2 different types, one was blued with a 2 band blued scabbard, the 2nd one was the painted one with the stamped hanger bracket. Like you he mentioned 2 different orders, which meant nothing to me at the time. Your information seems to confirm what he was telling me.

I bought the third one a couple years later from a militaria dealer in Finland who advertised it as "Russian". I thought it was different because it was it was new in original wrapping and had a black all leather hanger with a single rivet. I determined it was Finnish as it was identical to the others, except or the leather hanger, and had no Russian proof or acceptance marks. Also the dealer told me it was "captured" and came from a Finnish warehouse. Mike


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