Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Yugoslavian AK Bayonets
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Mr. B.
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Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Mr. B. »

I noticed that there wasn't much info on this subject, so here's a start. There are no references to Yugoslavia having made or issued AK47 bayonets. The same goes for the early AKM 6X3 Type I bayonets. Apparently the only Kalashnikov bayonets made and issued by them is the AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet and scabbard. They are all pretty much the same with only minor detail variations. The pictures below are of three different ones to show one of the most obvious differences, the "R" code numbered series. I have one unnumbered, unissued one but most commonly they have 5 or 6 digit issue numbers, (should be matching), stamped into bayonet grip and the lower part of the scabbard. The only various I know of to this is the ones stamped with a proceeding "R-" this adds 2 spaces to the standard issue numbers. Regardless of the length of the numbers including the "R-" ones they are always centered on the bayonet and scabbard. The 3 items shown below are all are in excellent to new condition and show little if any usage they all have some minor variations by matching issue numbers as well as matching proof or assemble marks on the blade and scabbard cutter plates.

Some collectors believe that the R code ones are from being Reworked, Reissued or Refurbished. I have seen nothing to justify this. Others believe that the R code was just a different production run. I tend to believe this and that the R code may also been made for a specific contract or for export.
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Mr. B.
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Mr. B. »

Here are some close up pictures. M.
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Dragur2791
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

Few years ago i obtained this matt finish Yugo 6x4. It has no serial numbers, but presents the usual Yugo markings on the blade and wire cutter area. To me it could just be a product meant for export and recently I saw a post on the web with a similar looking bayonet. That bayonet had been obtained in Iraq.. but afterall.. a lot of similar items has popped up in Iraq.
Or is this just some production variant with a different plastic mould..? Notice the comparison with a regular black Yugo.

Would like to hear any comments on this piece..

There is currently a Yugo of similar looks for sale at ebay at a debateable price..
that example is numbered however..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-YUGOSLAVI ... 5232.l9681
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

More pics
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Dragur2791
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

Comparison pics
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MDIvie
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by MDIvie »

The price on the EBAY unit is definitely debatable, especially if the source is who I think it is.
Also, this effect could be produced starting with an original finish and using light sand paper or better yet, tape off the metal and a light grit sand blaster on low pressure. Like many of the "rare" variations, not worth significantly more money with out a lot of very reliable documentation. MHO.

That said, it is an interesting look and if I come up with a cheap Yugo this weekend at the Gun Show I'm going to, I'll try to duplicate using the sand blast method. If successful, will post pics.

Martin
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Mr. B. »

Hi Alexander, I have also noticed several different variations of these "matt" finished bayonets and scabbards over the years. Please observe the one in my collection in the first pictures in this post above. It is not as overall matte as yours, but noticeably different than the other two. I also have an unnumbered, like new, all black M70 pictured on this forum under "Other" - "Slovenian". The un-numbered ones are also hard to find. Note that both our un-numbered ones have the two circular mold marks on the left side of the pommel. I am not sure what that means, maybe just made in the same time frame.
I have heard three opinions about the matt finishes over the years. The first is that it is a result of use and weathering. Exposure to the sun, (bleaching/fading), and other climatic conditions. Exposure to harsh/abrasive materials and chemicals during use and cleaning. I disagree with this reasoning as many of the ones I have seen like yours are in excellent to like new condition. Also the finish is very smooth and consistent over both the bayonet and scabbard.
The second opinion is that the matt finish is a result of inconsistencies in either the materials used or the molding process itself. The formula for material and mixing may have been altered intentionally or by accident. The thermodynamics of the actual molding may have contributed to the unusual finish. This process is very sensitive to heat, time and pressure. The matt finish appears to me to be deliberate as it is consistent to both the bayonet and the scabbard. They are not necessarily molded at the same time or place. My opinion is that the matt finish is either a manufacturing variation or an attempt to intentionally produce a matt, non-reflective surface. Mike
Last edited by Mr. B. on Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Mr. B. »

The third opinion has been responded to by Martin above. These Yugo M70 6X4 bayonets used to be quite rare. Then came the Balkan Wars and the various middle Eastern Wars. The aftermath resulting in large amounts of these bayonets being sold as surplus and imported to the USA. All different minor variations and conditions. They were cheap, but most were dirty and covered inside and out in crude grease, ( cosmoline?). They were very difficult to clean and several different methods have been used. From chemicals to abrasives. From soap and degreasers, to solvents and acids, scrubbing or soaking. Sanding by hand or rotary tools. Compressed air blasting with various abrasive material. I even tried using a vibrating metal bowl with soft media with some success. Note to MDI, use mild organic or synthetic material for your bead blasting experiment and you won't have to mask off the metal parts. Mike
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Dragur2791
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

Martin,
I think the person selling that piece on Ebay is the person you think of. A person I think has pissed off a few people throughout time with various faked items.. well enough said there..
but sure, you should bring that sand blaster to your gun show.

Mike,
Thanks for your thoughts. I think the thory on anti reflective surfaces are quite interesting when thinking of this matt finish as being a deliberate touch. However i also find it very likely that this is an outcome of some inconsistensies during production.

I digged out the post from 2009, I found on the AKforum. A post from good old rayman touching the subject of a matt finish yugo brought back from Iraq. Notice that it too lacks a serial number

https://www.theakforum.net/threads/dull ... ost-776767
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Mr. B. »

I still believe that the matt finished ones that are found in excellent matching condition are a result of a difference in either the material or molding process. The formulation changed and/or less or different coloring dyes used creating a matt grey coloration. The usual molding process creates a hardened smooth exterior skin or shell over the interior material. Like crust on bread. Evidence of this is seen on all the reworked Russian bayonets and scabbards that have been ground on and have new numbers hand etched into the surface. This leaves the softer, lighter colored, interior material exposed. Perhaps by intentionally altering the temp, time, and or pressure during molding they arrived at a more even hardness without the thin, color intensive, outer shell? MIke
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

Like many other subjects of unknown varieties of ak bayos, any theory goes. Untill confirmed documentation pops up. If it ever does.
I find this a bit compareable to the polish grey scabbards. Where they actually an export product to an african country or what was the truth? Either way it was an interesting variation to a very common bayonet.

It should be noted that I did not pay any kind of over price for this one. I bought it from a very reliable source in Europe.
It sold as a “Yugo with no numbers”. I only payed attention to the matt finish as I sat with it inspecting it my self.
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by MDIvie »

Mike,

You pose some very plausible explanations, as always. Thanks for he bead blasting tip.
My source for cheap Yugo bayonets wasn't at the show today, so my test will have to wait.

Dragur2791,
glad you got this at normal Yugo pricing.

Martin
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

I find it funny Martin -
you as an author, of a great Kalashnikov bayonet book, has the arrogant “i know it all”- attitude you show. Insted of being inquisitive about a bayonet you never saw before and dont know shit about, you imidiatly put up theories of the item being a fake.. rude and unnessesary in my world.
I simply dont get it.. you are an author on this very subject and I would expect a such person to be a lot more open minded like other people on this forum and in this very thread.
If you want to pose theories of fakes, do it when you have the proof.. i guess you had that when you wrote your book.

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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by mill_speer »

It is not a manipulation.
Mike has already made correct statements about it, there are clearly manufacturing errors.
It may be that the casting stuck to the mold during injection molding due to excessive heat or a lack of release agent.
This is particularly extreme with your Jugo.
I'll show one of the two, the course of the material in the mold
is not that extreme.

Eine Manipulation ist es nicht.
Mike hat darüber schon richtige Ausagen gemacht, es sind Eindeutig Herstellungsfehler.
Es kann sein das das Gussteil beim Spitzgußgiesen mit der Form durch zu großer Hitze oder fehlendes Trennmittel verklebte.
Bei deinen Jugo ist dieses besonders extrem.
Ich zeige mal eines bei dem der Materialverlauf in der Gußform
nicht so extrem ist.
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Mr. B. »

If anyone is interested in learning more about the "Plastic" molded parts involve in the making of the AK bayonets we collect and study you can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_moulding
To understand this last series of posts be sure to scroll down to section labeled "Molding Defects". Be sure and note, Color Streaks, Contamination, and Flow Marks. These errors all seem relevant to the matt finished bayonet and scabbard above.
Years ago I worked at a factory that did injection molding. I showed this post and pictures to an old QC/engineering friend of mine. He thought the item was a quality control reject, (no numbers?) or sample. Primary issue is material not properly formulated or mixed. He also pointed out the visual flow marks/waves on both the scabbard and grip evidence of improper molding. He also noted that both items appeared to be matching and probably molded at the same time and material batch. Possibly from experimenting with different materials and molding characteristics? Mike
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Dragur2791
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

Very interesting Gerhard, thanks for your great feedback
And great pictures! Very interesting to see another example of this particular matt colour of the the Yugo 6x4.
My first thoughts when I received it back then was that this had to be some sort of production error. It makes good sense!!

Mike,
I shall for sure check out that link


Jacob
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Mr. B. »

Something else to consider regarding the "matt" finished bayonets. At different points in time, most, if not all, the countries manufacturing these plastic scabbards and grips experimented with and changed to different base materials. Russia, East German, Hungary, Poland, etc.. It would make since that Yugoslavia would have done likewise. As evidence of this look this topic on this Forum: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II Scabbard Variations. At some point in time it appears that the material and molding of the scabbard changed from smooth plastic to a more durable material. It is very possible that the material used to mold the grips also changed at this point. Mike
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by mill_speer »

@ Dragur2791
You have a really great jugo,
you don't find something like that every day.
I'm almost jealous, congratulations.
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Re: Yugoslavian AKM 6X4 Type II bayonet & Scabbard

Post by Dragur2791 »

Gerhard,
Thank you alot. I believe too that this bayonet is very interesting with its features! The Yugo 6x4 bayonets are very common so all in all its interesting to see some with different features.
So again, thank you :-)

Mike,
I just went through your other post and its interesting how your bayonet of number 658806 shows some of the same matt/textured surface in some areas.

Besides, It makes good sense that production of these bayonets, regardless of origin, undergo some sort of change in material or process.

In this case of the matt colour it appears to be rather random as to how matt one bayonet will turn during production. Could be clear signs of inconsistencies during production.


Jacob
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