South African Romanian AK74 use

Romanian AK Bayonets

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Brian
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South African Romanian AK74 use

Post by Brian »

I have been digging a lot here in SA for info on the Romy Type II's that special forces apparently used and is the source of the few bayonets around.
I got the following info from an "operator" who was there, and wanted to remain anonymous. It gives some great insight into the deals that were done back in the old South African Border War days.
After reading his comments, I am quite inclined to believe that these 5.45's were possibly ordered incorrectly, and once the caliber was identified and found to be useless in a Southern Africa that did not use this caliber at all, and was useless to UNITA, these were maybe kept by Special Forces and put into storage for familiarization and training. Just a theory, but as good as any I guess.
Anyways, I found his comments on AK's in general quite interesting from the perspective of a special forces operative fighting a clandestine war.

Brian
Romanian AK 47s were included among the imports of various AK47 types
from various Eastern Bloc countries during the time of the Angolan War.
They were not imported specifically because they were Romanian or
because they were folding stock or because they were calibre 5.45. They
were imported only because that was what was available / could be
obtained at the time. These weapons all came from countries that were at
that time (the Cold War) enemy countries (many of whose forces were
physically in Angola engaged in warfare against SA forces). As such,
these weapon supplies were obtained from Non-Aligned countries
internationally and/or African countries that had an association with
the USSR/Warsaw Pact countries, and the type of weapon obtained varied
from shipment to shipment. There were multiple shipments required per
year, in large quantities (i.e. thousands per shipment). The selection,
therefore, had nothing to do with specific requirements, but rather the
obtaining of what was able to be obtained at the required times (and the
source and specific type/model of AK47 therefore varied greatly and
often). The sole requirement was that it was an AK-type of weapon, so as
to enable UNITA to have weapons for which they could obtain ammunition
resupply in-country from captured Soviet/FAPLA/Cuban supplies inside
Angola. The obtaining of these weapons was done by relevant
organisation, for onward provision to the Directorate of Special Tasks
(DST), and final provision to UNITA - primarily through the UNITA
training camps in Cuando Cubango Province in Angola and shipment
directly to UNITA's capital in Jamba. I am personally not aware of
Special Forces' utilisation of Romanian AK74s (but this does not mean
that it may not have occurred). Other countries that supplied UNITA via
Walvis Bay were West Germany, France and other NATO / European / African
/ Latin American / Middle Eastern countries; as the USA's supply to
UNITA came from Zaire.

Regarding the Romanian AK47s, there were variants, as follow:

1. VARIANT 1: A "standard" Romanian AK47 with a wooden stock and a
frontal pistol grip on the front foregrip / handguard.

2. VARIANT 2: A variant with a folding stock.

3. VARIANT 3: A variant with a folding stock, calibre 5.45 (i.e. AK74).
This was not a noteworthy or regular event/equipment piece (see below
for details).



VARIANT 1:
The "standard" Romanian AK47 was standard in all respects with the
exception of the frontal pistol grip on the fron forguard / handguard.

The additional of the frontal pistol grip rendered the weapon inferior
to a standard AK47 without frontal pistol grip.

The frontal pistol grip made the weapon become a hybrid between an
Assault Rifle and a Machine Pistol. This was unfortunate, as it
therefore rendered it as neither one nor the other. The frontal pistol
grip negatively affected the weapon's capability to be utilised properly
as an Assault Rifle, as it is really not possible to lay down highly
accurate / Targeted fire from a weapon with a frontal pistol grip due to
the way that the firer's support of the weapon in the front is affected.
A frontal pistol grip stance uses totally different muscles in the arm,
and cannot support a deadweight like a rifle with stability. Very
rapidly, the difference in muscles usage and strain on muscles that this
grip-type causes trembling in the arm (minor - but very significant in
respect of accurate firing). This significantly negatively affects the
firer's capability to lay down accurate / Targeted fire - presupposing
that the firer is utilising a NATO single-shot / Targeted fire doctrine
/ methodology. If the firer is using a Soviet / Warsaw Pact / USA
doctrine of automatic fire then the negative effect is not noticeable
(as this is a so-called "Wall of fire" methodology as opposed to a
"Targeted fire" methodology), but the results are still less
satisfactory than those from an Assault Rifle which is built to enable
the firer to rest the weapon on the flat hand with the arm and body and
muscles supporting it from beneath in a solid stance. It should, of
course, be remembered that rifles have been utilised for some Centuries
already, and the design of rifles to enable support from beneath in a
specific and solid stance was for a (practical and proven) reason. If
the weapon is used in a Machine Pistol (aka Sub Machine Gun) role, the
high-velocity round can be problematic in urban environments, as it
passes through some types of walls with ease, which can be unwelcome in
terms of the potential to inflict Own Forces casualties. Also, the
expenditure of (expensive) high-velocity Assault Rifle ammunition in the
quantities that one usually expends (less expensive) low-velocity
standard MP/SMG ammunition (on automatic) is not best practice.

Because of the above considerations (in terms of Targeted fire), and
because the members of UNITA trained by DST utilised the NATO Targeted
fire methodology, all "standard" Romanian AK47s with frontal pistol grip
that were delivered to the UNITA training camps for issue to the UNITA
forces undergoing training had the frontal pistol grips sawn off.

This resulted in a vast improvement to the accuracy of fire, and
rendered the Assault Rifle as a proper Assault Rifle, as opposed to the
hybrid not-one-or-the-other version with the frontal pistol grip.

Although the sawing off of the frontal pistol grips improved the weapon
considerably, and enabled it to be held and utilised with a classic
Assault Rifle grip and stance, it still rendered it inferior in
comparison to an AK47 with a standard foregrip. This was because the
foregrip was - even after having the frontal pistol grip sawn off -
uneven, with a bulge in the lower centre. Although this was acceptable
for standard / general use, it was not optimal for more specialised use.
Therefore, for example, the person responsible for the training of
UNITA's Special Forces did not accept these weapons, and had them
replaced with wooden-stock AKMs (the wooden-stock AKM is a particularly
good all-round weapon-type).



VARIANT 2:
All folding-butt Assault Rifles are inferior to solid-butt Assault
Rifles in a prolonged-use or robust-use environments (if one utilises
them in a NATO single-shot / Targeted fire role, as opposed to an
automatic fire / Wall of fire role).

This is because the part of the butt that is connected to the main body
of the Assault Rifle represents a weak point.

In a case of prolonged use or robust use, the joining hinge or section
is inevitably weakened, and this results in movement. In order words,
this breaks the solid and stable platform / unit of the weapon, as there
is the potential for up-and-down movement when the weapon is in the
shoulder. This is because under these circumstances, instead of the
weapon being one stable unit it is now two seperate units - with the end
of the butt and end of the barrel each being one of the ends of the two
separate constituent part of the weapons, and they are connected by an
unstable centrepoint which is the join of the folding butt. The front of
the weapon (barrel) is therefore unstable, and can more up or down when
in a firing stance. Although the movement is only in millimetres
(although sometimes up to a centimetre), this has a disastrous effect on
accuracy when firing (again, only if one is using a NATO single shot /
targeted fire doctrine). Such weapons are generally to be avoided /
discarded in favour of solid-butt weapons unless folding-butt weapons
are required for a specific purpose or reason.

Generally-speaking, the AKS / AKMS version of a folding butt is bad
enough, but the Romanian folding-butt version is worse; as the
side-folding butt is much weaker, and prone to not just up-and-down
movement after prolonged/robust use, but also (and simultaneous)
side-to-side movement. The folding butt itself is also thin, and is
prone to bending under conditions of robust use. This type of stock was
not limited to Romanian AK47s / AK74s, but was also found on East
German, Polish and some other AK47s / AK74s.



VARIANT 3:
This is the Romanian AK 74.

For comments on the folding-butt, see above.

Regarding the 3-round burst, this is similar to the frontal pistol
grip, in that it renders the weapon as neither a classic Assault Rifle,
nor a classic MP/SMG. It is completely impossible to (for right-handed
firers) prevent the second - and especially the third - round from an
AK-series Assault Rifle from lifting to the top and the right when
firing on automatic. this is even in the case of a 3-round burst, and
even if the AKM lip is fitted. Once again, if using the Soviet /
automatic fire doctrine it is fine (as this is largely suppressing
fire). However, if using the NATO single short / Targeted fire doctrine
it is completely unsatisfactory because it wastes ammunition and the
second and third rounds in the burst cannot possible strike the intended
target (if it is a person) at any distance greater than, say 50 metres
(and that is if that person is in the open, standing up stationery &
front-on, and the initial aiming point is centre-body - all of which,
except the distance, very seldom occurs in reality).

Regarding the calibre 5.45 X 39, this was completely unsuitable for the
Angolan War / UNITA application in a serious manner. This is because due
to the fact that the completely predominant weapon type in-theatre /
in-country was AK47-series with calibre 7.62 X 39, there was absolutely
no possibility for any sustained resupply of ammunition from captured
Soviet/FAPLA/Cuban sources.

As such, it is likely that this consignment may have been either:

1. One which was delivered on the "what was possible at the time"
situation that prevailed.

2. In error.

3. As a test by someone at the logistical procurement level who was
inexperienced in warfare or reality (this sometimes occurred - rarely,
but sometimes).

4. Due to a request from UNITA for these specific weapons for some type
of Presidential / General Officer / Political Leader's bodyguard group
(such types of close protection organisations - in all countries - often
choose form over substance, and equip themselves with things that look
or sound good - but are not good in reality for various reasons).

The Romanian AK74 was not a regularly-acquired or utilised weapon in
the theatre by UNITA, and neither (for the reasons listed above) could
it ever realistically have been. Only a small number were acquired

I personally did not utilise this weapon, due to the points listed
above, and also because - whether it is that weapon or any other - I do
not and will not use a weapon that fires a round with a 5.45 / 5.56
calibre unless I have no choice, as I have no confidence in that
ammunition. It is (in an African bush context) too easily deflected by
terrain / vegetation, and even when striking the target, its penetration
is severely limited to stopped completely by kit, magazines and/or other
obstructions.


Brian
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Re: South African Romanian AK74 use

Post by Mr. B. »

Excellent information! Even though the Romy AK74 (5.54) was not viable in S.A. at the time, it is hopeful that they are in storage/reserve there along with the Bayonets. As the 5.54 weapons become more prevalent world wide perhaps S.A. will find a use for them or resell them and the bayonets may become available!? Mike
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Brian
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Re: South African Romanian AK74 use

Post by Brian »

SA has a firm policy (part of a UN agreement) that NO arms will ever be sold if surplus to requirements. They WILL be destroyed.
I remember a list of over 100,000 FAL rifles, and stuff like Walther sniper rifles and Galils that were destroyed a few years ago. Zero chance they will ever come out except by "going missing"
Brian
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Re: South African Romanian AK74 use

Post by Mr. B. »

I hope the bayonets would not be required to be destroyed along with the firearms. It would certainly be a loss to bayonet collectors as this lot, being specifically identified as S.A., is in it's own category. Not just another Romy issue Type II. I would certainly like to have one in my collection. Mike
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